I love Jim Rome.. actually he gets on my nerves, but he does make me laugh...and yes, I've been groomed to like sports radio...what has the world come to?
Looks interesting. I do not have time to read it all right now. I need to get out the door to an auction. Thanks for the link. I will get to it this evening. I could not find the author of the blog???
20 "I am praying not only for these disciples but also for all who will ever believe in me because of their testimony. 21 My prayer for all of them is that they will be one, just as you and I are one, Father – that just as you are in me and I am in you, so they will be in us, and the world will believe you sent me. 22 "I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are – 23 I in them and you in me, all being perfected into one. Then the world will know that you sent me and will understand that you love them as much as you love me.
24 Father, I want these whom you've given me to be with me, so they can see my glory. You gave me the glory because you loved me even before the world began! 25 "O righteous Father, the world doesn't know you, but I do; and these disciples know you sent me. 26 And I have revealed you to them and will keep on revealing you. I will do this so that your love for me may be in them and I in them."
Sure... I'll take a stab. Biblical Unity and Unanimity are not the same thing. Unanimty, or "being unanimous" is indeed probably an "unattainable goal"... agreeing on everything, every issue, every decision wasn't attained by Jesus' most intimate 12, much less his followers 2000 years later. Rather, to me, Unity demands that we, through deference to one another and ultimately to Christ, can be as One, in spite of our lack of unanimity on certain issues.
... And as Jesus prayed on his last night, attaining that "oneness" can lead to great things. As our Lord said, the degree to which we, the vehicles through which Christ is seen today, can be unified is the way that we are in turn united with our Father and represents the way that the "world will belive" that God sent Jesus.
Our Lord prayed for us (believers). He wanted us to have unity. It should mean everything to us. dfox makes a great distinction between unanimous and unity. We need to grasp that our unity has an impact on the world. That is BIG stuff! Thanks for sharing...now we need to get to work :o)
The gospel of John present miracles of Jesus 'that you may believe' the greatest miracle of all would be that His followers would be united so 'that the world would believe'
The key to unity is how Jesus defined it in John 17 'that they will be one, just as you & I are one.' Several times t/o John Jesus is presented as submitting to the will of the Father. My simplistic, idealistic, suggestion is for us to all submit to the will of the Father as Jesus did. Stop looking for what we want. Start looking for what He wants.
The unity that Jesus prayed for in John 17 was the same as that between Him and His Father. This was once defined as "being one in purpose". That is what we are to be. I often wonder if that "purpose" is arguing over fellowship halls and orphan homes. Jesus said of His followers that by your fruits the world will know you. When the world looks at our brotherhood do they see our "fruit" as division?
I would add love to the other comments. We can't have unity without the love we're supposed to have. 1 Pet 4:8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. Pride gets in the way.
Unity is in God and His Word. If I have unity with Him (which is what I should strive for by being obedient to His word), then I will have unity with everyone who has unity with Him by default. We should not strive for unity with each other because we are often wrong and, in the end, it will not do us any good. However, our hearts earnest desire should be to strive for unity with God.
I wish I could say that unity was as easy as just striving to do what God says. The truth is, that many lines are drawn according to how "you" or "i" believe and how others differ from that code
Agreed. I'm just wondering if unity can shine through differences of understanding. I don't see the necessity to draw as many lines as have been drawn out there
well... I would rather people not ask me about the situation... but they do. So in the past I've defended the group based upon Wilson's assesment, finally wilson said he doesn't want to speak for the group anymore & said that I might be able to find the video on the internet. He feels its better, & I agree, to let you all speak for your self rather than believe hearsay. That is why I'd be curious to see the video or any other self-descriptions/defenses. I understand you being curious there are people out there looking for dirt/evidence.
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I can't WAIT for this to come out!!! I sincerely hope and think that this article will lend itself to unity among the brethren…… I give it a hearty AMEN! What do you think???
WARNING: The above statement is extremely sarcastic. The following is a preview of the July issue of Biblical Insights….. Parental Discretion is Advised
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It’s hard sometimes to get a handle on false teaching. In fact, Satan is a master at camouflaging error as truth in order to deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting. It is the same cancer God’s people have faced for years—designations may differ but the same old attitudes of arrogance, disrespect for Biblical authority, toleration and acceptance of culture, and an appeal for an emotion-based religious experience of feeling remains unchanged. Call it “Ketcherside,” “Free in Christ,” “Grace-Unity,” “House Church Movement,” “Radical Restoration,” or “Camp Churches,” the descriptions differ but the principles guiding the change-agents do not. Jesus said, “You shall know them buy their fruits . . .” Only Satan can put enough truth into error for it to become the fruit of deadly poison. Sergeant Shultz aside, we cannot adopt the “I see nothing!” attitude that blindly looks the other way. The July issue of Biblical Insights will give Biblical insight into such issues as—
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CENI (Command, Example, Necessary
Inference)—Applicable or Outdated?
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Emotional Religion—
“If It Feels Good, Do It!”
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When Is Worship, Worship?
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The Faith of Toleration—
“We Won’t Do It But
We Won’t Condemn It . . .”
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Feminism at the Table—
Can Women Lead the Assembly?
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Recognizing Reckless Restorers—
There Is Usually a Pattern
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Drinking and Dancing—
Are They Really That Big of a Deal?
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Can We Be That Dogmatic About Baptism?
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Instrumental Music—
Swallowing Camels?
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Has the Second Coming Already Occurred?
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“But They Clapped in the Psalms!”
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Is the Lord’s Supper a Common Meal?
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Stale and Dead Churches—
What’s the Biblical Solution?
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Pitching the Tent Toward Sodom—The
Scripture Argues Wrong Tendencies
Attitudes and Consequences
of the Reckless Restorers
Dave... Please disengage, my friend. "... and then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train heading your way..." Spend more time thinking about Jesus, not the guys over at BI. Hope you're well, amigo.
Because sarcasm is the best way to win to prove someone else wrong. Am I right? Seriously. I am getting sick of this. Whether or not I can even agree with your beliefs is beside the point because I can't even wade through all of this sarcasm and ridicule. Sure, people may mislabel you. People may call you wrong. People may make you out to be a sinner that threatens to overthrow the Lord's church. But guess what? They did the same to Jesus. And I didn't see him hurling about sarcasm and needless ridicule. He criticized where criticism was due. But he critcism did not extend to sarcasm and blatantly firing away at something before he read it. I might disagree with some of the beliefs behind the "house church movement", but I might be more willing to lend and ear and respect if I didn't see such un-christlike attitudes so flippantly displayed.
Having said all that, I must say that I do not mean to be cruel or harsh in my words. It's just that I honestly can't dig up any sympathy when, practically every time something like this comes up, I see a huge blast of sarcasm and bad attitudes from those who are in support of the house church "movement". I agree 100% that those who criticize and write articles such as that in Biblical Insights may not conduct themselves properly. I've see those who argue that side act just as sarcastic and un-christlike. But that does not justify reponding in kind. Nor does it garner any sympathy. I'd be happy to sit down and have a true, open adult conversation with someone who believes in the house church "movement", but I find myself unwilling to do so when this is the sort of thing I have come to expect.
I really didn’t realize that you could gather… “wading through sarcasm and ridicule” or “ blatantly firing away” or “flippantly un-christlike attitudes” …..from 2 smart alec sentences about how excited I was for this article to come out and about how much unity it would bring. Maybe you should read what I said again… better yet, go back to my blog entitled opinions and see if there is anything you can find that I said rude or demeaning… Then, compare it to some of the things said on that blog to me. There is a time and a place to stand up for yourself, and I don’t think a little sarcasm is the end of the world.
My statement was not merely extended to this one instance. It is extended to all blogs (one of your back in January, for example), whether from you or others, that try to receive support and symphathy while simultaneously criticizing the other side of the fence, so to speak. I'm tired of it. I really am. I honestly want to sit down and have a true, 1-on-1, heart-to-heart biblical discussion with someone with your beliefs, yet EVERY single person with your beliefs I've come across can barely utter two spiritual-related sentences without either displaying sarcasm, rudeness, evasiveness or a "CENI! CHURCH BUILDINGS! SUITS AND TIES!" rant. I don't like to apply that stereotype to ones who hold your beliefs. It hurts me to do so. But I cannot do anything but that when I have yet to find an exception to that rule.
Also, I should clarify that my statements in my first comment were not only directed to your blogs as well as others, but also some of the comments made even here. I noticed I used singular "you" and "yours" in my first comment, but I wasn't only directing it at you, Dave. You weren't the only one being sarcastic or showing appreciation for the sarcasm.
Finally, Dave, I do owe you somewhat of an apology. I realize the attitude and sarcasm you have displayed here is fairly mild. Your comments in and of themselves both here and on your opinions blog were probably not enough to warrant my comments just now. It's just that this whole blog and the comments therein were the straw that broke the camel's back.
Yeah...some of us feel the same way about magazine articles with no merit that do nothing but divide and those who jump on the attack without truly understanding all that's going on
I say this not in reference to any particular person or article. I have not read the articles in Bi nor do I really want to. I have read and been part of similiar discussions. Here's what REALLY bugs me.
I understand the perspective of those people who write such articles. They truly believe that the TRUTH is being compromised and feel the need to preach the truth. Here's what I don't like. It is the attitude towards the people who are so called "reckless restorers." I have no doubt that if I had a conversation with the authors of BI that I would be considered a "reckless restorer." I too am simply looking for the truth. I am not trying to be a false teacher. I am not tryingto lead someone astray. I am not trying to be a "cancer that God's people have to face."
In the Bible, there is an OBVIOUS difference between a false teacher and someone teaching error. Apollos taught error about the baptism of John, but he was not a false teacher. False teachers are referred to as "wolves in sheep's clothing." False teachers are looking for glory and a following. They are INTENTIONALLY trying to lead someone astray for their own purposes. Based solely on the introduction above, it seems like these articles in BI are painting people who might hold to these beliefs as a "cancer" that is INTENTIONALLY trying to lead people astray. If you believe I am in error, then talk to me please, but realize that I am still your brother in Christ. I love God just as much as you do and am HONESTLY trying to seek the truth and serve him to the best of my ability. And just like you, I am a sinner who needs the grace of God and the saving blood of Jesus Christ each and every day of my life.
Kevin, I think you make some excellent points. The things you have said are my biggest concern/diagreement with some of what I see taking place in opposition to the house church movement. People are far too willing to throw around "reckless restorers" and "wolves in sheep's clothing" toward their brethren without having any true knowledge. For example, a few months ago, I was talking to a guy about why, while I do not believe that everything we do is worship, I do not think it is worthwhile to spend all my time and effort refuting that. If a person believes that everything we do is worship, yet they act Christ-like and do not neglect their responsibilities to meet together as a church, I'm fine with that. So far as I can tell, I act the exact same as such a person, they just call "worship" what I call "service". Therefore I'm going to concern myself with any bad attitudes or false doctrine that is truly not biblical and will lead people astray. Not what I perceive as a misunderstanding in which the end result is the exact same as my conclusion. Immediately after saying that, this person spouted out "Yeah, but it's dangerous, They're wolves in sheep's clothing, It's a false doctrine, They're trapping young people, Etc" without addressing ANY of my thoughts when I know for 100% fact that he had ZERO experience with the house church movement beyond hearsay. It is sad to say that most people do not research things for themselves and find out if what they are saying is true. They rely on magazines, papers and hearsay. Therefore, while I have not read the BI article, I certainly hope EVERYTHING found within it has been thoroughly researched and is absolutely, 100% true, because that is precisely how most people are going to treat it.
I wonder if the early church in Jerusalem sent a letter out complaining about how "different" the church in Corinth looked, talked, and worshipped our God. Because you know there was a difference. I can go to different worship services of conservative churches all over this country who are not carbon copies of one another and it's OK in the conxervative world. But heaven forbid if there are one too may differences. You can only have 5 differences not 8. If you have 8 then you are definitely wrong and going to hell. When are we all going to get it brothers? Take care of your own group of the "called out". Make sure you are comfortable with all you do there and leave everyone else alone. Most parts, not all, christians in this country can choose the church they attend and are members of. Do that and be at peace with what is done. Leave the other churches to study and understand the Bible in their own worship and leave them be.
You know the worship service of today is not what the early church did. They didn't go to nice neat air conditioned church buidlings all the time, if any. They met in houses or outside for the most part and didn't have a sign our front saying "Church of Christ". But if you don't do that today, watch out! You know the early church didn't sit around in pews and pass around little shiny silver trays with crackers and tiny cups of grape juice in them. But if you don't do that today, watch out! Please brothers, we need to stop the condemantion of others who want to do somethings differently. I once heard a man say after a debate about the name of the church..."Well, it may be OK scripturally to not be called the CoC but it's not cultural and that is wrong." Where are we going my brothers?
^^^what? you use silver trays! You are clearly apostate. Only gold trays are scriptural. And don't think of using that money for the poor either. ;-) Sorry, I couldn't resist.
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I think mine is "There's a Rainbow" for two reasons. 1 for the way country folks sing rainboooooouuuuuwwww. And 2, because one of the verses says something about rain, and harvest grain, but has nothing to do with God... just kinda funny i think
Tough question. Don't know if I could narrow it down to just one so I'll throw out a couple.
1) "There's a Great Day Coming" I dislike this song because every group I have sung it with sings it like the last verse states (There's a sad day coming...). The whole song just sounds depressing to me.
2) "He Bore it All" This is a song where the music just doesn't match the lyrics. "My Savior suffered pain and agony..." is sung like it's the most cheery thing in the world. I also dislike the syncopation at the end of each verse.
3) While it doesn't necessarily bother me, my wife HATES "Sanctuary." She says the descant sounds all "Mariah Carey like." I think it has just been a little "abused" by some over-zealous 13 year old FC campers :)
Sing and Be Happy. Its one of those songs that I can sing with neither understanding nor spirit. For one thing James says "If any is happy let him sing".
definitely agree that He Bore It All is the most disturbing! It's funny Dave, bc there's a song they sing here that I had never sung in the states called 'God put a Rainbow in the Cloud' which I don't like at all. Let's ban all Rainbow songs I guess!!
"God Give Us Christian Homes, God give us Christian homes, God give us Christian homes..."
How many times do we have to say that phrase in one song? Twelve? Ridiculous!
