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A Booklet... 11-06-08 11:22am CST

...written by many people will likely be better than a booklet written by a single person. Well, it's a theory at least :).

The Situation

Things are getting to the point where most people have recovered enough from initial "hurricane shock" to start reevaluating themselves and their standing in life. It's a critical time, and a great time to start teaching people the truth contained in the Scriptures about salvation and God's plan for mankind. There have been a lot of visitors to services recently, and I imagine that is likely the case in nearly every congregation in the area. People you meet in public seem to be much more willing to have religious conversations than they were a few months ago. It's amazing the change in attitudes that takes place when disasters strike. When we are humbled, for a brief window of time, we are forced to face our mortality and dependence on someone greater than ourselves.

That window of time is probably going to be coming to a close sometime in the too near future. People who are looking for spiritual answers will find them (not necessarily the right answers) and others may simply go back to being uninterested. It would be great to have a booklet to hand out to people that answered questions and presented information helpful to their spiritual questions. In particular, a booklet aimed at answering questions that people might be asking right after a major storm, like, you know, a hurricane.

The Problem

I would love to put together a booklet like the one mentioned above. It would be a great and helpful tool, but I don't have the time to do it all by myself (there's probably a reason for that). It would take too much time to get everything written and put in order if I were the only one working on the booklet. I imagine the first printed copy would appear in, roughly, 2 to 850 years from now.

That is much too late to be of any real assistance to anyone.

The Solution

One time, at the University, I took a class where a group of students collaborated online to compose a document - specifically a research paper. It worked great. We only had to write one paper instead of 5, we had different perspectives to make the project more complete, and many heads looking for answers are more efficient than one.

As individual Christians, we can work together to make a booklet like the one mentioned earlier. I doubt that any single person has enough free time to make one on their own, but if we all take a little time to work on the booklet together, we can get it done quicker, better and completer (yup, real word).

The Proposition

I am going to create an online document with a series of questions or other topics that will be discussed in the booklet. If you're interested in helping, let me know and I can give you access to the booklet based off an e-mail address that you supply. If you see a question you'd like to answer, let me know and you will be assigned to work on that question; same thing for any topic. If you think a question or topic needs to be added, suggest it.

After we get a rough outline for the booklet, we'll create another document and start writing. The questions and topics will be put together, edited ("unity of voice"), laid out in booklet form, and then I will incur the cost of printing them.

The booklet will be presented as coming from individual Christians, not a congregation or denomination, and given to those individuals who are seeking to become nothing but Christians.

The Task At Hand

If you are interested, let me know. If you know of someone else who might be interested, tell them about this. The sooner we start working and writing, the sooner we can get printing and the sooner people will have the information that can help them understand the Scriptures and receive the wonderful grace of our Lord and Savior.

Preemptively, thank you to all who are willing to help.

emersonk78

I'm in. Put me to work.

 
bossmayfield

sure! bossmayfield@yahoo.com ask away

 
preacherdavetx

preacherdavetx@gmail.com

 
bah

And this little booklet could easily be left on the restaurant table with the tip...right?

 
bah

pocket size version!

 
bridgieaggie06

I actually made that post before the outcome of the election. . .it had nothing to do with who won.

 
bah

bah1999@gt.rr.com

 
jrhudgins

Happy to do what I can jacobhudgins@yahoo.com

 
jefftrahan

You can count me in as well.

 
tom_bombadil

I am indeed the author.

 
firefaerie

Hey, if you want to carry my baby to term for me it would be great ;) Awesome experience comes with awful mornings lol

 
the_dillards

Thanks!

 
texasgreen

Hello and thanks for stopping by my page cheers

 
preacherdavetx

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!

 
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Politics, Preaching and Prayers... 10-08-08 03:17pm CST

...but not necessarily in that order.

Prayers

I want to thank everyone who has been praying for the situation down here that resulted from the hurricane. There have been many people who have helped physically, and I am looking forward to the spiritual growth that is going to come from the love shown by so many Christians in so many different places.

Another hope of mine is that more and more people will turn away from the allurements of this world to the gospel of Christ. The hurricane was a very harsh lesson that physical possessions are gone in the blink of an eye. They aren't lasting and the joy that they bring us is temporary at best. Hopefully more people will look to God as a refuge which will never fail and never be shaken no matter the external conditions. Would you please continue to pray for the spread of the gospel in this area?

Preaching

I have been thinking some more about the topic of short sermons. Let us stand and sing...

Just kidding. I think the focus was changed in the previous discussion from the impact of the message to the spirituality of those who suggest that shorter sermons are better. I am going to write another entry about practical speaking theory as regards speech length, but I wanted to let everyone know beforehand that our ability to sit through a three hour sermon is not a measure of our spirituality. Having an iron seat does not correlate to having a good heart.

Politics

I've decided to leave politics off this blog. I'd rather not taint a perfectly good discussion about spiritual things.

bah

I wish King David or Paul were still around.

 
tom_bombadil

I'm not convinced that there will be any practical difference between the two candidates when it comes to abortion. Yes, Obama is pro-abortion. But McCain's record is nowhere near a solid pro-life stance. McCain has a mixed record on his abortion statements and votes. They both support embryonic stem-cell research, and neither wants to overturn Roe v. Wade. McCain's party platform says he's pro-life, but that's what (nearly) every Republican's platform has said for the past 10 years, yet even when they had both houses of congress and the presidency, they did nothing about it. Let me make my opinion clear: John McCain will not take any steps toward ending abortion. There is no difference between the candidates when it comes to this issue.

 
tom_bombadil

I think the most viable (as in last-ditch-effort), spiritually-based option is to vote for a candidate that is outspoken in his pro-life stance. Neiother candidate is, so I will be voting 3rd party to send a message to the Republicans: if they want me back, they're going to have to nominate candidates who will clearly advance the pro-life agenda.

 
caseymp3

I saw an analysis of the abortion issue by Buchanan... Last Chance For Life I don't agree with it completely. He basicly says "Obama WILL ruin our chance to overturn Roe V Wade, and McCain might not hurt the chance we already have." but realistically congress controls the jurisdictions of the federal court, and they could have reeled it back in in the 90's but they do'nt have the guts or the convictions to do it. THe only way we can fix it is to actually vote people in who care about it. McCain will just use it to get our votes, and he's not going to destroy their one trick.

 
caseymp3

I'm not going to pay 'taxes' anymore, especially if Obama wins. I hope everyone understands.

 
caseymp3

It is also scarier for me that McCain can claim to be 'pro-life' and still support exceptions, and also stem cell research. That means it is a life, but we don't have to care about it if this situation applies. At least Obama might actually just not get it. Also, realistically, as far as people obtaining abortions, the best way to stop that is 1 on 1 and doing our part as individuals to displace the government role in peoples lifes when they are in a scenario where they might be tempted to do such.

 
cuul1

Well see, what's going to happen is that a big war will break out and the population of America will come to the conclusion that the procedures in Congress and the Senate take too long. Americans want everything fast and quick so we give more power to the President, stays in office much longer than he needs to and creates the First Galactic Empire! No wait nevermind....But yes, the way things are looking we are become The "Red" United States of America.

 
bah

How exactly did that quote from Stephen Gould go about being tradition bound and stupid? It's bugging me that I can't find it on the net.

 
wberk

"Having an iron seat does not correlate to having a good heart." Well written.

 
firefaerie

Is there anyone Lonnie and I know personally that lost family or passed? I know we can't do much, but on my free days I can drive people places or take them to the store.

 
tom_bombadil

Everyone hears McCain talk about his pro-life voting record, but they rarely look to see for themselves that of the seven votes on life issues so far this session, McCain has voted pro-life twice, pro-choice once, and abstained FOUR TIMES. This is how he keeps his "pro-life" record intact--by not casting the pro-choice votes he wants to cast unless he's got enough pro-life votes on record to override them. McCain will do nothing to stop abortion. He'll actually make the problem worse. If nothing else, he'll increase embryonic stem cell research.

 
hillabilly

As for politics, I keep hearing interesting reports from the home state (West Virginia). The early voters that try to vote for Obama keep running into problems ... when they select him, the selection changes to McCain. I found that pretty interesting in a predominantly Democratic state.

 
preacherdavetx

Here are some politics that won't get you down. Vote for this guy to stay on pleo!

 
bossmayfield

Hey, the names Paul. David O. or preacherdavetx said your trying to teach someone the gospel who has a drug problem. Well please if you have any questions let me know. I am a therapist as is my wife. She is a psychologist and we deal with those issues on a dily basis. It would be nice to help you help the person.

 
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Update 10-02-08 03:11pm CST

After calling and talking with many people, these are the things that they need the most:

Clothes

Household and Hygienic items (toilet paper, toothbrushes, cleaners, etc.)

Food and Drinks

Money

No one would come out and say it, but money is the thing that would most useful to many people. There are a few families at Stonegate that lost all of their clothes and the easiest way to replace them is to get money and go to the store. Also, the insurance companies are not providing money to anyone yet which makes it difficult to get food for some people.

So far, everyone from Stonegate has had flood insurance, but there are some Christians in the area who did not or had very little coverage. As it is, the members from Stonegate will likely not have enough to cover the costs of repairing their homes completely. I will provide more accurate information on this area when I can.

The needs of both saints and others are the same. In Bridge City (a decent sized 3AAA school system), there were only 14 homes that were not flooded. If you know a congregation who would like to help, I can provide you with an address and contact information for the elders at Stonegate. They have a collection set aside specifically for helping Christians who are in need in this area. If you'd like to help as an individual, send me message or send me an e-mail and we can talk about how to do that, too.

adamandjessesdad

Thanks. I'll let our elders know. I know some people who might have some clothing to donate, but I don't know whether we need to find out about needed sizes, etc.

 
adamandjessesdad

Is there still a congregation in Bridge City?

 
preacherdavetx

Have you sent out an email to Brethren On-Line (BOL)? I have not seen it come across the wire, but a lot go throgh so I may have missed it, but it is a great resource to get help from our fellow brethren.

 
muldoon202

Hi Steven, I'd love to help out. I'll talk to some other people as well and see who else would like help out. I'll e-mail you in the next day or two!

 
singandbehappy

hi steven, i would like to help out too! would you mind giving me the contact information of the elders at stonegate, please

 
steven_cuffle

Thank you to everyone who is willing to help. I've attached the mailing information for the elders here at Stonegate. If anyone would like additional contact information for them, please call 409-727-1568 and it will be provided. I'm not really keen on putting other people's contact information on the Internet.

Att: Elders
Stonegate church of Christ
3948 Highway 365
Port Arthur, Texas 77642

Thank you again to everyone who is and has helped. We all appreciate you love and generosity very much.

 
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Hurricane Ike Recovery 09-26-08 03:16pm CST

The power of a storm is amazing. There is a great deal of property damage in our area and fortunately not as great a loss of life. There are some families that have lost everything they own - few things survive 9 foot flood waters. We have one sister here in Port Arthur who lost three brothers and four sisters to this storm. That's an amazing loss of life in one family.

She has been an amazing testament to faith in Jesus Christ. She is recently converted from a very difficult background, but her faith has seen her through a variety of struggles, and it has lifted her out of the water in this one, too. I personally don't know how one could cope with such an unexpected loss without faith in God.

Would you all please take time to pray for the Christians, in deed all of the families in this area who have lost both loved ones and suffered losses to the storm. We are slowly pulling things back together and the community seems to be drawing together to get through the problems, but there is no source of greater power than prayers offered through faith in God.

If you have any questions about the situation or how you may be able to help, please don't hesitate to leave a comment here or you can send me an e-mail (Steven at Stonegatechurch dot com). Above all, please don't forget to pray.

adamandjessesdad

Seven siblings lost! I cannot imagine that. I'll try to spread the word about those needing help there.

 
leahsparks

Steven - we have a small congregation...there are a couple of older couples who are looking to help someone. I doubt it would be very much, but I can give you their e-mail address/phone #'s or I can be the middle man... Just let me know!

 
tom_bombadil

Could you send me specifics on the Christians in need so that I can forawrd their needs on to the elders here?

 
dbsmelser

Nice to meet you too. And so far you are definitely in line for the "best letter" prize on my page. Not that it's an actual, tangible, physical prize or anything. :)

Wow. Assuming insurance won't cover a lot of those losses, since flooding is rarely a covered damage. Maybe you could post about the needs there?

Also, I was wanting to comment on your previous post. A factor to keep in mind about the sermons in NT scripture: we probably have only summations of those sermons, not the complete text. That seems clearly true in regard to Jesus's messages in the Gospels anyway, and I suspect it's true of the apostolic messages in Acts. That said, I think there are methods superior to my 30 to 45 minute sermons. It's just so hard to get brethren thinking carefully, critically, analytically, when you're lecturing, regardless of whether is 40 minutes or only 20.

But I can't get the brethren to go along with what I'd like to do! Like somebody said earlier, I would guess that a lot of 1st Century instruction was not long monologues. I'd like to be able to use my sermon time for discussion type studies of the same topics I'd be preaching on - maybe not as much discussion as I encourage in class periods, but real, true discussion of the issues nonetheless. But no, we have to have monologue sermons, because that's what we've always had. Oh well. Thankfully, the folks here are very supportive of me preaching as long as I need to any given day and they do listen...just not as analytically as I'd like.

 
preacherdavetx

Do you have time for an update on brethren there? We are praying for you all, and the recovery. God Bless.

 
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Short, Powerful Sermons 07-23-08 04:24pm CST

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes..." - Romans 1.16

"For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." - 1 Corinthians 1.18

The power of God is in the gospel of Jesus Christ, not the preacher of the gospel. The power of God is in the message of the cross, not the messenger.

Have you ever noticed that most of the sermons, or at least what we would call sermons, in the New Testament are relatively short? They cover some basic information, make their point and application, and then the speaker is finished. For example, in Paul's sermon on the Areopagus, he briefly summarizes all of the Bible (without quoting a single verse), then he makes his point and leaves. He probably spoke for 10 minutes. Most people I know (translation="me") would be tempted to talk for a prolonged period of time given the audience that he had.

Another example, Paul was speaking to a synagogue of Jews in Acts 13. Again, another time when I would expect a protracted homily, Paul briefly covers the history of the nation of Israel, makes his point and application, then leaves. This time he may have spoken for 15 minutes. Maybe.

Why is it then, that we have 45 minute sermons? There are examples of disciples spending more time together, for instance Acts 20 when they talked for hours, but I imagine that most of that time was spent in a Bible-study-like way rather than someone sermonizing for several hours.

Maybe there's something I'm missing, or maybe I'm being too hard on myself, but why do I feel the need to talk for at least 30 minutes? The effective attention span of most listeners isn't nearly that long. Google just told me that most people have an attention span of 15 minutes per sitting. Isn't it interesting that most sermons in the New Testament seem to be that long or shorter?

Most speakers note that you have 15 minutes before you need a gimmick or a break in order to achieve maximum listen efficiency. So, maybe I shouldn't be afraid to speak for "only" 15 minutes.

What would you all think if a preacher spoke for 15 minutes and then sat down? It's entirely possible to preach on even the most complex subjects in 15 minute periods, we would just have to break down the points more...maybe we would remember more things that way? What do you all think?

(29 older comments)
sparker

Thank you!

And repetition is usually key for remembrance, so I would think a series of short lessons would keep longer than one long sermon. Also it may help to divide the lesson up into two parts with singing/scripture/prayer in the middle.

 
jrhudgins

Well we had a second study last week, but they no-showed for our third study yesterday. I thought it was going well--we talked some about the watchtower and why they trust these guys when they admittedly make mistakes, etc. But, either they forgot or gave up on me!

 
the_dillards

Personally I think that if someone is unable to sit more than 10-15 minutes in church listening to the word of God that is not the preacher's fault, but their own fault. After all anyone can sit infront of a tv or movie screen and get lost in it for hours at a time and not think twice about the world around them, neglecting there family, chores, or things that really need to get done. Really is 10-15 extra minutes out of our week going to kill us? As christians we should long to hear the word of the Lord. We this is really a problem with people, we need to start training ourselves to enjoy listening to the word, instead of wordly things on tv and movies. Just my thoughs though.

 
leahsparks

I didn't know you were on here!

 
jrhudgins

Thanks, Steven.

 
hillabilly

Greetings. Denny here ... DRA from Christian Forums.

 
sdmf

Hey Steven, this is Jason Mooney. How are you brother?

 
arsenal

In reference to your above commentary. I do not believe the services of the early church was like our spectator assemblies. I tend toward the synagogue form where any man could speak and see much more interaction.

 
heidix

This is an interesting discussion. My brother, who is a preacher, has found that he only needs about 20 minutes to say his sermons. He is effective in organizing his points and comes up with key words and points that are easy to remember. When I watch Joel Osteen (gasp!) on tv, I find he does the same thing. My brother and I both studied debate and speech extensively in high school and college, and I can only conclude that Osteen obtained formal speech training from somewhere, too. In my teaching career, I find that teenagers need the subject to change or a substantial break while listening every 7 minutes to retain and reflect on what is being said. That is not my original rule; rather, it is one I absorbed from a teaching book and put into practice. It seems to work. To conclude, let's just put it this way...I would feel a lot more spiritually uplifted if I listened to well-organized points for 20 minutes than if I listened to droning with no focus for an hour.

 
sdmf

Oh I'm not up to a whole lot. About to have my first child here real soon. She is expected to come anytime now. I saw The Well Trained Mind group on your pleo. Y'all homeschooling?

 
landry

easy in the context of my job, its usually pretty easy just to drive somewhere but when you take a job when you're tired it magnifies the difficulty. on a different note im doing well, i am hoping you might have some free time sometime and we can do something together and catch up

 
muldoon202

I was walking in a parking lot and lost my balance, stepped on my foot wrong and broke it! (pretty crazy, huh?). I had to get a pin put in place and now have to keep off it for 3 weeks! But, it's some nice downtime after lots of summer school - haha. And I like this post. I really agree about direct sermons running about 15 minutes. Hope y'all are doing well :)

 
hillabilly

Given a choice between short versus long sermons, I prefer shorter ones. Within the past year or so, I heard one lesson that was almost two hours. With better planning, the lesson could have been presented in about half the time with no detrimental effects. On the other hand, shorter lessons can also be very powerful and effective. Acts 2 is an example. It didn't take long for the apostle Peter's teaching (under direct guidance of the Holy Spirit) through verse 39. Even for the Jews that may not have heard "many other words" in verse 40, the initial, short message was powerful enough for them to see the fulfillment of several O.T. passages as God poured out His Spirit and delared His Son to be both Lord and Christ. Lord willing, in the not-too-distant future, I'm planning on doing a lesson based on "five words" as discussed in 1 Cor. 14:19. My plan is to discuss ... "God spoke. I believe. Settled." Summing up some of the best lessons I've heard over the years, they have been in the 30 to 45 minute range. The illustrations used were concise and relevant, the points were clear and direct, and the preacher stopped when the lesson was finished ... versus finishing the lesson, looking at the clock, and continuing to speak because the alloted time (?) to speak hadn't been utilized.

 
rmiller

Thanks for the tip! Met Zane yesterday morning and he was very welcoming. He did caution me about my associations when I told him who told me to look him up! ;-)

 
kirbyj2

Two more thoughts to add to the mix:

1) I agree with the point made above that we should be training ourselves to enjoy listening to the Word. We must note, however, that people have different levels of concentration. I believe attention spans can be developed, but if two men equally train their minds to listen more effectively, the more naturally intellectual of the two will always have the greater attention span. The end result is that one man, who enjoys listening to the Word proclaimed and tries his hardest to stay focused, may find it difficult after 40 minutes. On the other hand, another man with the same attitude may be able to focus two hours.

2) I don't think we can compare the movie-watching experience or television to listening to a sermon (an argument I have heard many times). Movies and television are more naturally stimulating (visually and audibly) than someone speaking, no matter how talented the speaker is or how important the message is. Additionally, preaching stimulates intellectually (far more so than even the most cerebral movie). The more intellectually stimulating a thing, the faster it will exhaust a man.

 
the_dillards

Steven, you have really got me stirred over this! About the comments above, Think about this... We used to have meetings for the whole summer and people would come from all churches and denominations and hear the gospel preached. As time went by and other things started becoming more important, sports, tv, school... it got shortened to 1 week, then to 4 days, and now many times just a weekend. What has happened to us??? I hear many times the older preachers and memebers saying, it was because no one had tvs or any other form of entertainment. So what is this saying about our generation? Are we putting these things above what we really should be doing and concentrating on. I think our attention span is zapped from all of the other things that we put first!

 
the_dillards

I also have to say If we know that we have a issue with this we need to be praying constantly, We need the Lord

 
the_dillards

...We need the Lord's guidence to help us have a better attention span and a better attitude about the whole matter. I think we all need to be praying for each other on this matter!

 
tom_bombadil

I have revisited this page, and I have to say that I did not want to read the lengthy comments without any paragraph breaks. But the shorter, concise comments were much more helpful.

 
spike427

I don't plan to read all the other comments. I'll just say this: when we come together on Sunday, it is to partake of the Lord's Supper. It is not to sit and be preached at. Now, there is nothing wrong with a sermon. But if you asked a visitor what they thought the "main event" of the worship service was, they would probably say the sermon. It's perfectly natural, since it gets the most time devoted to it! We need to put the focus back where it belongs.
I also agree that preaching and teaching in the New Testament was probably not as one-sided as our modern-day sermons are. We even have examples of question-and-answer sessions recorded. Sad then that even many Bible classes turn into one-sided preaching sessions.

 
spike427

zach: it's not the commenters' fault that there are no paragraph breaks. i had to go manually insert mine - he must have the mark-down option selected. :)

 
emersonk78

As posted above, people do have different attention spans. But attention spans can also be built and trained over time. A preacher of the Gospel (in my opinion) needs to find a workable, needful length of sermon to develop, prove and apply the Scripture. Then, he ought to try and stay close to that time on a regular basis. This will develop and train the home congregation to concentrate for that period of time.

 
adamandjessesdad

Maybe he should add one minute each month!

 
lavendargirl36

I agree Ashley it all depends on your priorities. If the world is calling you then 15 minutes of church seems to suffice. You need to also think about people from the world coming in and sitting down to only 15 minutes. What are they going to learn from the lesson and from God's people? Jesus died for our sins. Can't we give him our attention for 45 minutes and not complain? This is such a small sacrifice of our lives compared to the sacrifice that He made for us.

 
lavendargirl36

I knew someone what was very near and dear to my heart. He would say that he could not sit through a church service and he had A.D.D. He would get up and go make phone calls or sit and go through his cell phone. He also could NOT sit through a dinner with his family. Eventually he couldn't spend very long with his family because they were not adventerous for him and he was bored. The Lord's word was NOT his top priority. The world constantly called him. He even made comments at times about being bored in heaven. How sad this person's life has turned out. He eventually chose the world and all of it's wickedness over his family and God's word. It all started with a lack of priorities in putting God and then family first. All the business of each day is so unimportant compared to our soul . When it is the end of our lives are we going to wish we would have spent more time doing worldly things or God's word?

 
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